Transitioning: Early Intercourse

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  • #8577
    Dr. Pacik
    Dr. Pacik
    Participant

    Transitioning from dilators to intercourse can be monumental for many patients when still in the early stages of overcoming their anxiety to penile penetration, despite heroic progress with dilators. There are difficulties finding the “right position”, finding where the vagina actually is in relationship to your partner, fear of thrusting and certainly fear of failure.
    One patient recently questioned what she should do to help prevent her partner from slipping out. Ellen, our surgical tech wrote the following email which I thought would be of value to others:
    :
    Thank you for the update and congratulations on having successful intercourse… YAY!!

    I wanted to discuss the slipping out of your husband just before ejaculation and try to help. This is not an uncommon occurrence and can usually be solved with trying a couple of different techniques. Without a few more details and you using the words “slips out” to describe what is happening, I’m guessing _____ may be taking too long of a thrusting stroke during climax. Have him try to take shorter deeper thrusts when he is on the verge of climaxing to help hold himself in place within the vagina. This can be accomplished through deep penetration and short pelvic movements. It works best if his pelvis is flush to yours or even closer with a little added pressure. Sometimes this technique can be stimulating to your external clitoris and provide additional sensation to you. If this does not work and he still needs a longer thrusting stroke, try applying even pressure around the base of his penis when he is about ready to ejaculate. Either one of you can form a ring around the base of his penis using your fingers, just outside of the vagina. Use however many fingers to get a firm, yet gentle, even pressure coverage. _____ will need to communicate what is comfortable and feels good to him. Move your hand opposite of his thrust to provide a counter stroke and sensation he will enjoy or even a circular motion can be a nice feeling for him as well. This allows him to take a shorter stroke, yet feel as though he is completing a longer thrusting stroke. It can be a little tricky, but if you are trying to achieve internal ejaculation for either the climax experience or attempting to conceive, the techniques could prove beneficial. Sometimes just trying them to get them right can also prove rewarding. Also, it is not uncommon for the man to slip out immediately following ejaculation. Some men lose their erection almost instantly once they have ejaculated and do not hold enough shape to remain inside the vagina.

    Let us know if you have additional concerns and need further help. I look forward to future updates.

    What type of challenges have you experienced and how did you overcome them?

    #10032

    Catherine
    Participant

    Ellen and Dr. Pacik —

    This is a very helpful post. Thank you for sharing these explicit tips. My husband and I have had a few minor issues with slippage, and I think we will try a few of these techniques. As you know (and as I mentioned in a different post), using the side-by-side position has helped us a great deal with entry. These tips should further assist … Good stuff! — Catherine mj : )

    #10036
    mm
    Heather34
    Moderator

    Ellen and Dr. Pacik – This is a great post. Our challenge that we experienced post-procedure was “leg-lock” with intercourse. This seemed to happen almost involuntarily. While I didn’t experience any discomfort or pain with intercourse, I think it was probably a conditioned response. To get around this, we used the “doggy-style” position as it is impossible for leg-lock to occur with this. I also noticed that my legs tightened up a couple of times at ob/gyn exams as well. Again, this was a conditioned response that just happened involuntarily. To overcome this, I did relaxation breathing and it worked very well. I also reminded myself that I had dilated for over an hour with the largest blue dilator comfortably and, thus, a small speculum would not cause any pain whatsoever.

    #10102

    Palmtree721
    Participant

    This seems to be a great place to discuss thrusting during early attempts at intercourse. My husband and I have now attempted intercourse twice since the procedure. During our first attempt, he had limited to no thrusting due to the amount of my anxiety and pressure that accompanied any thrusting at all. Obviously it was extremely difficult for him not to thrust because we were in the missionary position (especially as he became closer to ejaculation). So, first attempt at intercourse was a success! We were able to achieve full penetration with minimal pain. We just weren’t able to perform any thrusting movement due to the anxiety and pressure.

    To alleviate some of these problems, our second attempt at intercourse was in the woman-on-top position. This seemed to work fantastic because it allowed me to move and ease him in-and-out of me with minimal anxiety. The anxiety was much lower because I had complete control ( he really loves when I’m in control). Awesome…we were again able to achieve full penetration while I performed thrusting from the top position. We were both ecstatic! What a wonderful experience it was!

    The first attempts at intercourse can be REALLY intimidating (especially when you’re trying to insert a penis that you have no control over). That’s why I believe the woman-on-top position worked so well for us. Hopefully we are working up to a point where I will feel comfortable enough to allow him to move. I believe we will attempt it with me on top and then transition to the missionary position as well. That should provide us an easy transition into male thrusting. 🙂

    This has been one of the most amazing experiences! It has been life changing and I am so glad that we found Dr. Pacik and his team! They were able to help us achieve the intimacy that we’ve desired for years now. Thank you so much!

    #10114
    mm
    Heather34
    Moderator

    Hi Palmtree! CONGRATS on your tremendous success and I am so, so happy for you and your husband. :):):)

    #10118

    arose
    Participant

    My husband and I tried transitioning to sex for the first time (properly!) a few days ago. I know it sounds ridiculously silly, but I’m not sure if we were successful or not!!…

    When dilating, the dilators still usually take a couple of minutes (often 5 mins for no7) to insert, but are comfortable once in. So dispite the initial time issue, I felt ready for intercourse.

    After I had spent time dilating (with no7!) we tried several different positions, but couldn’t seem to find the right one, but then settled on man on top, but with his legs outside of mine. The slippery lube had made it hard for him to sustain pressure in the right place! This position seemed to work, and what we experienced was pain free, looked like penetration from what we could see (!), and my husband said it did feel like it to him, but I was quite baffled at the lack of all round pressure I felt that I had not felt the twinge of him passing my muscles as I do with the dilators, and as it felt nothing like the tension I felt with no7. However, we enjoyed this experience, we’d never been able to feel quite this close to each other before, and he ejaculated easily without me trying to jump away (which usually happens when we simulate sex), and it felt nice. He was fairly sure we’d just managed it, I wasn’t too sure what to think, but possibly because we’d been trying and never getting there for so long, it would be hard to believe it when it happened, and it was hard to let myself accept it in case I was wrong or it didn’t work again – the emotional roller coaster ride is too much! Also it felt very different to what I expected, but then perhaps I had been stretched well by no7, and if he was a little smaller that would make a big difference. Anyway, we decided to have dinner, and try again afterwards – I just wanted proof! (And to experience it all over again). It was a bit of a blur.

    We had dinner with the no7 in place. I then went to the toilet, but afterwards was struggling to put the no7 back in (perhaps I was putting myself under too much pressure?), so instead I put the blue back in for a while. We then tried again, it felt good to start with, but on closer inspection it turned out that he wasn’t really actually inside me, but just pressed up against me, as it were. just much closer than our usual intimate moments. I felt let down, confused, and dispondant…

    I wasn’t sure what to make of our first experience, which I wasn’t 100% sure about anyway (I still just don’t know!). Perhaps it was insertion but just not past my entry muscles (which as I said usually put up a bit of a fight)? Perhaps it was full insertion? Or perhaps it just looked like it!?!.. I guess I had been desensitised a little by using the no7 it was hard to know!!

    I was about a month post procedure, and I had been putting so much of my time every day into dilating (often half the day!)… surely I should be transitioning by now!?! I also have the time pressure that I go back to work in september and will only have an hour or so available each day instead of the time I have now.

    I came away from this experience so confused, let down, and some how grieving for the glimmer of total intimacy we thought we shared but could not cling on to and repeat. It took me a couple of days to get over this!

    I’m now on a dilation break due to my period, so I hope to get back to it afresh in a few days, and with renewed positivity towards successfully transitioning.

    I’d really love to know about your different transition experiences (successful or not)… and how long it took you to get there post procedure (as ever, it’s easy to feel like you’re the one it’s not going to work for!!).

    #10119

    arose
    Participant

    P.s. Palmtree, I’m so chuffed and excited for you and your hubby… well done, and I’m sure it will only continue to improve 🙂

    #10135
    mm
    Heather34
    Moderator

    Hi Arose. You are making tremendous progress in your journey to overcome vaginismus. I am here for you always and know that you and your husband will be 100% successful with transitioning to intercourse. Here are some patient stories about transitioning from dilators to intercourse:

    Story 1: “I found that the most important thing for me in the beginning was using the largest (blue) dilator for 2 hours prior to attempting intercourse. Then, he would take it out and slip right in where it once was. And, he is a lot more comfortable than the dilator is.”

    Story 2 “Dr. Pacik, My homework/experiment on Saturday evening was a complete success!!! I dilated with pink for 1 hour and then big blue for 1 hour and 15 minutes. When I took big blue out I had my husband slide his erect penis in immediately as you suggested and there was no resistance at all!! I just felt some mild burning but it wasn’t unbearable and certainly nothing like any of our previous attempts! He was able to insert his entire penis within seconds. We held off on any thrusting as you suggested. WOW is all I can think of to say!!!!”

    Story 3: “I had dilated an hour with purple and an hour with pink (I haven’t been able to get back to the blue but don’t worry Dr P said that was normal and you still can achieve intercourse) we then made sure we had a lot of lubricant, in the beginning this seemed to be very important for me it just makes it easier. We tried for me to sit down on him so I had complete control of the situation however this way didn’t work for me, I was able to tense my legs up so much by having to hold up that it made it impossible. We didn’t give up we just tried a different way. He then got on top of me, this way worked so much better for us. We didn’t do thrust, he just went in and out. He was able to get over halfway in, I was not able to do it long enough for him to finish the first time, bc I became a little sore. But we were very happy with the progress and refused to give up. A few days later we attempted again. This time he was able to go all the way in and we were able to last until he finished. This is something we have wished for years. It was still mechanical and we didn’t try different positions. The next night we tried again. This time we started with him on-top and added a little thrusting and then we were able to switch positions with no problem with reinsertion. It was such an amazing thing for me to go through. We did reapply lubricant each time we switched place just so it didn’t get dry and hurt. With the Botox it tends to dry you out more then normal so just add more lube and you should be fine!!! Just take your time everyone takes different times. We eventually want to not have to plan and prepare when we are going to have intercourse so more romance can be in it but we are taking it a day at a time and we are very happy with where we have gotten. Stay positive and good luck!”

    #10229

    arose
    Participant

    Thanks for these tips and advice. I feel like I plateaued a bit with the dilation, and it’s easy to become dispondant at the lack of success as yet. Last night we tried tip only, as well as him moving the dilator himself, which was good progress, but he was stuck at tip only because he couldn’t get past my muscles. When will my muscles that put up this ‘wall’ just go away?!!

    #10230

    arose
    Participant

    Big news… despite my previous post yesterday morning, we were able to have sex for the first time after over 5 years of marriage last night!!!

    Due to the time I’d put into working with the dilators, and progress we had made with the tip only, we decided we needed more time together… rather than me just by myself working with the dilators, we needed to work together, getting him more involved, getting me more relaxed with more ‘open’ positions with him, and attempting more progress with transitioning (every mm is progress!!)

    This was our third attempt… he came back in the afternoon from work for us to have some time together like this, which was an exciting feeling in itself (we’ve never planned intimite time in the day like this before!.. but now we really could!)… planning this time enabled me to mentally prepare and be in the mood for it, as well as ensure I’d had Mr blue in for a couple of hours before. We spent time with him moving the dilators inside me (which we had only begun to do the previous night), and particularly for me to get used to this in more sexual positions, including on all fours! This helped me to really relax and open myself up mentally as well as physically, as well as for him to learn about the angles etc (as this was new to him too!). We also practiced with me on my back but with my legs open, as this was not something I was particularly comfortable with.

    We thought we’d try tip only on all fours, but whilst this worked ok with the dilator, it wasn’t going to happen easily with him, so we reverted back to me on my back and attempted to insert his tip, we got to my muscles, which he could feel, and just held it there with a bit of pressure (and the occassional wiggle!!)… after a little while he was in!!! Just like the dilators, he went in very slowly and gradually, it would have been easy to think that it wasn’t going to happen, but after some time it did! We were able to do proper movement… it was good, though it got uncomfortable with long quicker thrusts, but it was proper sex and we were both able to climax at the end only seconds apart!! (Not bad for our first time!).

    This was a really amazing landmark for us – it’s a bit of a blur now, and took a while to sink in, but so exciting and opens up so many possibilities (including now the very real possibility of children in the nearer future). I also found it a realy encouragement because it meant that I didn’t have to perfect the dilation insertion for us to succeed with intercourse, so even when I’m struggling with the dilators, I know it doesn’t mean we can’t have sex at all. Whilst I hope things will get easier eventually, I expect the whole process still to take time and care, so we know it’s important to book this into our schedules (starting again tonight!)… whilst this sounds a bit mechanical it’s good for me too as it allows me to look forward to it, get in the right frame of mind, and also allows us to have ‘down time’ where its ok to have some time off too!

    From reading the other posts above, it’s been really helpful to read how other people get on with early transitioning… thank you for sharing your experienes, and I hope other people will be able to share there’s too (now I can read these postsn to gain tips rather than getting dishertened that it’s not me!)

    #10288

    arose
    Participant

    Hello again,

    I just thought I’d post to ask for more tips / advice, and I suppose to see if I’m not alone in this…

    We’ve been able to try intercourse several times now, we’ve been working at trying a couple of different positions, and so far (with dilating beforehand), we’ve not had a problem with actually inserting ‘him’ (which for us is such a milestone). In fact this is getting easier as we get more confident. However, similar to what palmtree mentioned earlier in this thread, I’m struggling at the moment to totally relax and enjoy the thrusting movement, which is obviously important to keep him aroused (so this can cause some difficulties!!). Now that the initial rush of exitement about being able to ‘do it’ has faded a little, we want to be able to just relax and enjoy it but it’s not always happening like that. Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled at our progress, I’m just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues, and whether I will learn to get used to (and enjoy!) the movement side of things?!

    #10300
    mm
    Heather34
    Moderator

    Hi arose. This is an excellent and very common question. When we first started having intercourse, I too had to adjust to the movement aspect of things. What really helped us was practicing in advance of intercourse with the dilators. We used the largest blue pure romance dilator and would practice the same type of movements with this (i.e. taking it out and putting it in at varying speeds and also moving it around quite a bit). It may seem strange at first, but it worked really well and helped me to become much more comfortable with movement and to also trust him that much more. Hope this helps.

    #10613

    Palmtree721
    Participant

    arose,
    I was curious to see if you had found anything yet that helps you relax in order to allow him to thrust freely. It makes me nervous that I am nearing the 4 month mark when the Botox will wear off and I still can’t tolerate his thrusting. The only way I can give him enough movement to reach orgasm is when I create the thrusting motion from woman-on-top position. I have been trying to work on my own with the dilators to imitate the thrusting motion and practice that way. It seems like it is only comfortable when I am in control. We are still thrilled at the progress we have made, but it’s just getting frustrating that we have been stuck in a rut with this issue for a couple of months.

    #10628
    mm
    Heather34
    Moderator

    Hi Palmtree. I think this is a very good topic of ways to become more comfortable with male thrusting. I think it is excellent that you have been using the dilators to imitate the thrusting motion and practicing this way. Another thing that really helped us was to use a vibrator in advance of intercourse and imitate the thrusting movement with this as well. For me, the vibrator felt very different than the dilators. Some of the different types of vibrators include Candy Stick and Lelo Liv. This seriously worked wonders for relaxation in addition to adequately stretching prior to intercourse. Also, by allowing my hubby to be involved with this, it helped me to build trust and allowed me to not feel like I needed to be in as much control.

    Another thread that may be helpful discusses Positions of Comfort Post-Vaginismus:

    For the veterans out there, what else have you found that helps you to relax in order to allow your husband/partner to thrust freely???

    #10675

    arose
    Participant

    Hi Palmtree,
    great to hear from you! 🙂

    I know how you feel – over the moon at the progress, yet still feeling a bit frustrated and impatient by wanting it to be properly ‘normal’. Recently I think I’ve noticed the botox wearing off a bit as things have felt a bit tighter and harder to insert – this hasn’t been a big problem, but has just reminded me of the importance to keep up with the dilation schedule.

    I haven’t found a magical cure for thrusting, sometimes it’s easier than others, but overall I think it’s slowly (I mean slowly!) getting a bit easier, and I think it also depends on a few factors:
    – How relaxed I am
    – Lot’s of foreplay
    – Lot’s of lube
    – Starting slowly… after insertion, we spend a few moments acclimatising, then build the movement up really slowly. Also slower rather than quicker thrusting helps.

    We try to enjoy the moment, and savour all the different feelings, rather than getting the job done quickly! A couple of times I felt a bit too sore to keep going, so we took that opportunity to explore other ways of enjoying each other (rather than just giving up)!

    I agree with Heather that it also takes some practice to give up the control, and sometimes (particularly with vag sufferers) our bodies can perceive anxiety as pain. I found getting him to move the dilators in and out a helpful stepping stone to letting him take the lead down there and building trust.

    I haven’t tried using a vibrator in the way Heather suggested, but I can see that it could work well!

    I hope things continue to improve for you – just keep reminding yourself of how far you’ve come!

    Keep in touch,

    Arose xx

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